to all you christian biblethumpers- what is your answer to this?

Public Comments

1. What's your answer to this... *A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A CHRISTIAN AND A MUSLIM* By Ahmed Simon Islam Review John ? Tell me Ahmad, why did your prophet Muhammud claim that he talked with an angel, and this angel carried the conversation to Allah and vice-versa; unlike our prophets who communicated direct with God? Ahmad ? That is what my Quran says in sura 2.67 (chapter/verse in the Quran). John ? In sura 22.52, Allah says he removed Satan?s verses from the Quran. How sure are you that all Satan?s verses were removed and how did Satan get to the Quran? Ahmad ? I really don?t know, John. That is what is said in sura 22.52 of the Quran. John ? In sura 2.106 & 16.101, it says Allah (Muslim God), cancelled many verses in the Quran and added better verses. What made Allah change his mind, and wasn?t the initial verses of Allah any good? Why did Allah correct his own work? Ahmad ? That is what the Quran says in those suras. I don?t know why it is mentioned. John ? Your prophet Muhammud waged various wars. What did he do with the booty? Ahmad ? He killed the Christians and Jews, in Saudi Arabia, and took their wives and daughters (always the best for himself before passing the rest to his companions). The same applied to their belongings. He also fought wars, with the Arabs and some muslims. John ? In sura 33.37 of the Quran, it says prophet Muhammud married his daughters-in-law while their husbands (his sons) were still with him? Wasn?t all his women enough? Ahmad ? Prophet Muhammud had a great sexual appetite. He had 12 wives, numerous concubines, temporary wives and female slaves. He even married a 9 year old girl, named Aisha when he was 52 (9 years in muslim calender is 8 years in our Gregorian calendar. Present 40 years will be 44 years old in the muslim calendar. Somebody goofed). John ? Why did prophet Muhammud overrule Allah who created 1 woman for 1 man, and allow muslims to have 4 wives at any one time? Can prophet Muhammud overrule Allah? Ahmad ? It sounds ridiculous to me also. But how do you know so much about Islam? John ? From www.islamreview.com and their links. Try it. Doesn?t the Quran say in sura 2.62 & 5.69 that all Jews and Christians will go to Heaven? Ahmad ? I know, but resent that sura and I don?t know why it is stated in the Quran. John ? Why does the Quran also say in sura 19.71 that all muslims will go to Hell? Ahmad ? Though it?s not said, I hope, after spending time, some like me,will be saved. John ? In sura 43.61 it says Jesus the Messiah will come again on Judgement day. Ahmad ? It is, John. John ? In sura 21 Abraham destroyed the idols, then, why keep idols in the Kaba in Mecca. Aren?t muslims facing and praying to these idols in the Kaba (Mecca) today? Ahmad ? I suppose they must be holy idols, John. John ? I cannot understand sura 2.142-144 of the Quran, which basically says the Qibla(direction to face to pray), was changed from Mecca to Jerusalem and back to Mecca again. Isn?t Allah everywhere? Why face one spot on earth to pray to Allah? Ahmad ? I did not know the Qibla was changed and rechanged.I must check this sura. John ? Why did prophet Muhammud?s soul go to Jerusalem to rise to Allah? Isn?t the Kaba the house of Allah? Then, shouldn?t he have risen from the Kaba (Mecca)? John ? The Quran in sura 3.106,107 says Allah recognized white people, as good and black people as bad. Why did Allah judge people based on the colour of their skin? Ahmad ? Prophet Muhammud had very fair skin colour according to Bukhari. I have to check this sura to see why Allah said black was bad. John ? The Arabs invented Slavery, and even prophet Muhammud had hundreds of slaves himself, so did all his companions. Isn?t this slavery in muslim nations continuing today? Ahmad ? Not so rampant today, as before though. John ? Every muslim is required to pray for 365 days a year with no exception, for subuh at 5.23 a.m. syuruk at 6.49 a.m. zuhur at 1.08 p.m. asar at 4.14 p.m. maghrib at 7.16 p.m. and isyak at 8.25 p.m. but Ahmad, with so much of prayer, the muslims still face hell. Prayer in Christianity is not perfomed in a set of obligatory and mechanical rituals as in Islam. In christianity, we pray because we love God and enjoy His presence, and, ultimately, in seeking an even closer presence in Heaven. The pleasures of Heaven in Christianity is life in the presence of God. Ahmad - (In Silence). John ? In sura 7.157 the Quran says prophet Muhammud was illiterate (cannot read or write and uneducated) and so were all his companions. Most of the suras in chapter 18 refer to them living in caves. Why did Allah pick such man as his messenger. Ahmad ? (In Silence). John ? In sura 4.11 & 2.282 the Quran says a male?s inheritance is double that of a female, (A legal will is not allowed in Islam). It also says one male witness equals to two female witnesses. Why are muslim females only half of a male? Ahmad ? Females are recognized as inferior, because Allah made man superior, period. John -The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong? Ahmad ?(In silence.) John ? Why stone a woman to death for adultery, while a man is only whipped? Ahmad ? Because women tempt men and that is why they have to cover, head to toe. John ? In sura 4.34 of the Quran, Allah says a disobedient woman should be beaten and deserted by her husband. Isn?t Islam the only religion to sanction this punishment? Ahmad ? Sura 2.223 says women are basically to serve man and Allah is merciful. John ? In sura 2.219 & 5.90 of the Quran, it says muslims must not consume wine, because it is ?Satan?s Handiwork?. But in sura 47.15, 55.54-56, 83.22, & 83.25 it says repeatedly all male martyrs will go straight to heaven and awarded ?voluptuous fair virgin maidens, rivers of wine, best fruits, milk and honey?.Why you cannot drink wine on earth, but can in heaven? How did ?Satan?s Handiwork? get to Heaven? Is this why muslims are committing suicide in the name of Allah, to have virgins, etc in Heaven- Sex Maniacs? Is this the only way muslim males can go direct to Heaven and why not muslim females? In my opinion, these men will be sadly disappointed when Satan welcomes them in Hell, for killing innocent men, women and children, don?t you think? Ahmad ? (In silence). John ? Nothing to say, Ahmad? John ? Allah orders muslims to kill to spread Islam as stated in sura 4.74. Why? Ahmad - It was done in the formative years of Islam, not so many nowadays. John ? Allah orders muslims to kill anyone who gives up Islam, in sura 4.86? Is this the only way Allah has, to keep muslims within his fold, by getting other muslims to kill? Ahmad ? (In silence). John ? In sura 9.29 & 9.5 Allah calls muslims to kill unbelievers unless they submit. Ahmad ? (In silence). John ? Why all this killing,Ahmad? Why chop off a person?s right hand and left leg for theft? My God is a creator and not a destroyer. Ahmad ? I am also ashamed, but what can I do? Even muslims are killing more muslims. My belief is most muslims don?t think of people, but want more money, power and land. John ? After prophet Muhammud and his companions were poisoned to death, according to Bukhari?s Hadith 3.786 & 4.394, but before all of them died, the Jewish widow who served the poisoned mutton, said to prophet Muhammud, ? I wanted to see if you are a real messenger of Allah. If you were, Allah would have saved you and your companions, if not, good riddance to bad rubbish?. She was then ordered to be beheaded. Also according to this Hadith, prophet Muhammud suffered greatly for his last two and a half years, and he finally died on the lap of his favourate child-wife, Aisha. But what puzzles me most is in sura 4.47 of the Quran, which states, Allah confirms the Jewish Torah (Old testament) and the Christian Injil (new testament), and also in sura 3.84 of the Quran, it calls on the muslims to believe in the Scriptures given to Jesus the Messiah. The original Manuscripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated 650 B.C. to 70 A.D. now publicly displayed in the Jerusalem University Museum, further confirms everything in the Bible. Then why condemn and criticize the Christians and their Bible as wrong? Ahmad ? (In Silence). John ? In sura 16.103 of the Quran, Allah says it is written in clear Arabic, but in sura 3.7 it also says, only Allah can interpret this clear Arabic in the Quran properly. No wonder, each muslim has a different interpretation of the Quran, if asked upon. Do you agree? Ahmad ? The Quran is written in the old Arabic language. And we have ustaz (religious teachers) trained to explain to us the Quran. But I must admit, each ustaz has a different interpretation of the same sura. That is why, if you ask a 100 muslims, you could get a 100 different interpretations. Generally, a muslim will tell you, Islam is wonderful, nice, good, great, superb, and all the positives but no substance, because they don?t know how to interpret. You see John, I have read your Bible, but the Quran has no such sequence, no such chronology or history, no pattern, no geography, no biography, no prophecy, just verses in a jumbled up fashion. A chapter will contain different subjects all jumbled up in a haphazard manner within this chapter. The chapter which comes first, is just because, it is the longest in length, followed by the next longest and so forth, and finally the shortest chapter. One sura might say something reasonable, but another will be the opposite, in complete contradiction. The entire Quran is supposed to be from Allah, but actually it is as though different Allahs (Gods) or authors, wrote the different chapters or even parts of the chapter due to the varying styles, fashions, words used, patterns, and content. For example you mentioned the wife beating sura 4.34, it says just that. It does not say how many beatings, where, when, how, which part of her body, how hard, for what, why etc. I suppose, it is left to her husband?s discretion to just slap his wife or beat her to a pulp. Because the suras are mostly left open-ended like this, it leads to all sorts of diagnosis or interpretations. And no expert can honestly say, whether an action by a muslim is correct or wrong. What the word quran means in Arabic is to read and that is all a muslim has to do, minus the understanding. This is my honest answer. If a muslim hears me say this, it will be his duty to bring it up and a religious authority will put a Fatwa (Islamic Decree) on my life (just like Salman Rushdie who is hiding for 25 years and also thousands have been killed), and believe me, some muslims, fed up of life, will use this ticket (opportunity) to go to heaven, and kill me, and might include my family too. John ? I thank you for your honesty. But I also blame, Human Rights groups, NGOs, Workers? Unions, etc. whose constitution is grossly violated by the Quran, and yet the muslims use them against non-muslims, when it suits them, but never on the atrocities created by muslim countries on their own muslim citizens and foreigners. These organizations must get their act right and with the help of Governments, have the Quran, re-written, remove all violence, gender bias, etc.which do not comply with the United Nations Human Rights Convention. In the guise of religious freedom, no religion should be allowed to perpetuate inhuman atrocities against humans, period. Only then this world will see peace, happiness and prosperity. Ahmad ? What you are proposing John, is to tear off most of the Quran?s pages.
2. There are answers to all...but be fair and chose one to ease the response on this forum...which one troubles you the most???
3. The sad truth is that most biblethumpers have never read the Bible cover to cover. They've just mindlessly ingested what their preachers and parents have told them.
4. it's a myth. that's why it's flawed. it wasn't written or inspired by a god. but true believer will have a different, pat (mindless) answer. and to make sure you see it FIRST, he typed in one letter and submitted that. only to update later. his cult is so lame-a$$, and his craving for attention to it is so great, that's how he displays his low self-esteem. don't heed his nonsense, but feel sorry for him. sometimes people need pity as much as they need attention. it's sad to see it on this forum so much. :( BY THE WAY, thank you for the post. This is an excellent question and it shows that some people (like the poser of the question) actually READ things and THINK about them. Not just accept them, blindly and mindlessly, because they need a crutch to get through life... This type of research and inquiry shows how flawed the book is. And it should illustrate to people that a God would never create something so flawed and so self-contradicting. THINK people!! THINK!!! In response to a question like this, a moron will often say "The fool hath said in his heart,there is no God." Rejecting the Bible is NOT rejecting God. It is rejecting a silly, poorly-written myth. Many people who are Deists, for example, are happy to believe there is a God, while admitting that man-made myths will never accurately explain or understand God, and that Deists acccept that we are not wise enough ourselves to determine which of the hundreds of myths on earth might actually be most correct. Why pick one and say "this is the accurate representation of God"? Nobody is wise enought to make that choice. And it makes no sense to do so, and then once inside the cult, suddenly hallucinate that you're "in touch with God"... There is no wisdom in that, only self-aggrandization. You have too many mindless people who look at a sunset and say "see, the Bible is real!" Holy cow -- you can't get much more brainwashed than that!!
5. Dear hoosierdaddy: Your list was virtually an exhaustive one, enumerating apparent contradictions. Apparent, not real. Moreover, it is precisely this exhaustive list which prohibits a reasonable response in this forum. If I may ask, could you perhaps choose one or two apparent contradictions so that your sincere question can be answered sincerely?
6. Wow! I'm not Christian...but those questions really...I don't even have any words for that! Have you ever read any of Bakunin's stuff?? He's the father of Anarchism and he wrote a sweet essay on religion...think you would like it
7. You will no doubt get reported now for contradicting the sanctity of Christianity! This is Yahoo Christian answers not Yahoo Answers. Didn't you know!
8. Mine is longer. look.... Abbott: Well Costello, I'm going to New York with you. You know Bucky Harris, the Yankee's manager, gave me a job as coach for as long as you're on the team. Costello: Look Abbott, if you're the coach, you must know all the players. Abbott: I certainly do. Costello: Well you know I've never met the guys. So you'll have to tell me their names, and then I'll know who's playing on the team. Abbott: Oh, I'll tell you their names, but you know it seems to me they give these ball players now-a-days very peculiar names. Costello: You mean funny names? Abbott: Strange names, pet names...like Dizzy Dean... Costello: His brother Daffy. Abbott: Daffy Dean... Costello: And their French cousin. Abbott: French? Costello: Goofè. Abbott: Goofè Dean. Well, let's see, we have on the bags, Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third... Costello: That's what I want to find out. Abbott: I say Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third. Costello: Are you the manager? Abbott: Yes. Costello: You gonna be the coach too? Abbott: Yes. Costello: And you don't know the fellows' names? Abbott: Well I should. Costello: Well then who's on first? Abbott: Yes. Costello: I mean the fellow's name. Abbott: Who. Costello: The guy on first. Abbott: Who. Costello: The first baseman. Abbott: Who. Costello: The guy playing... Abbott: Who is on first! Costello: I'm asking YOU who's on first. Abbott: That's the man's name. Costello: That's who's name? Abbott: Yes. Costello: Well go ahead and tell me. Abbott: That's it. Costello: That's who? Abbott: Yes. PAUSE Costello: Look, you gotta first baseman? Abbott: Certainly. Costello: Who's playing first? Abbott: That's right. Costello: When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the money? Abbott: Every dollar of it. Costello: All I'm trying to find out is the fellow's name on first base. Abbott: Who. Costello: The guy that gets... Abbott: That's it. Costello: Who gets the money... Abbott: He does, every dollar. Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it. Costello: Whose wife? Abbott: Yes. PAUSE Abbott: What's wrong with that? Costello: Look, all I wanna know is when you sign up the first baseman, how does he sign his name? Abbott: Who. Costello: The guy. Abbott: Who. Costello: How does he sign... Abbott: That's how he signs it. Costello: Who? Abbott: Yes. PAUSE Costello: All I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base. Abbott: No. What is on second base. Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second. Abbott: Who's on first. Costello: One base at a time! Abbott: Well, don't change the players around. Costello: I'm not changing nobody! Abbott: Take it easy, buddy. Costello: I'm only asking you, who's the guy on first base? Abbott: That's right. Costello: Ok. Abbott: All right. PAUSE Costello: What's the guy's name on first base? Abbott: No. What is on second. Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second. Abbott: Who's on first. Costello: I don't know. Abbott: He's on third, we're not talking about him. Costello: Now how did I get on third base? Abbott: Why you mentioned his name. Costello: If I mentioned the third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third? Abbott: No. Who's playing first. Costello: What's on first? Abbott: What's on second. Costello: I don't know. Abbott: He's on third. Costello: There I go, back on third again! PAUSE Costello: Would you just stay on third base and don't go off it. Abbott: All right, what do you want to know? Costello: Now who's playing third base? Abbott: Why do you insist on putting Who on third base? Costello: What am I putting on third. Abbott: No. What is on second. Costello: You don't want who on second? Abbott: Who is on first. Costello: I don't know. Abbott & Costello Together:Third base! PAUSE Costello: Look, you gotta outfield? Abbott: Sure. Costello: The left fielder's name? Abbott: Why. Costello: I just thought I'd ask you. Abbott: Well, I just thought I'd tell ya. Costello: Then tell me who's playing left field. Abbott: Who's playing first. Costello: I'm not... stay out of the infield! I want to know what's the guy's name in left field? Abbott: No, What is on second. Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second. Abbott: Who's on first! Costello: I don't know. Abbott & Costello Together: Third base! PAUSE Costello: The left fielder's name? Abbott: Why. Costello: Because! Abbott: Oh, he's centerfield. PAUSE Costello: Look, You gotta pitcher on this team? Abbott: Sure. Costello: The pitcher's name? Abbott: Tomorrow. Costello: You don't want to tell me today? Abbott: I'm telling you now. Costello: Then go ahead. Abbott: Tomorrow! Costello: What time? Abbott: What time what? Costello: What time tomorrow are you gonna tell me who's pitching? Abbott: Now listen. Who is not pitching. Costello: I'll break your arm, you say who's on first! I want to know what's the pitcher's name? Abbott: What's on second. Costello: I don't know. Abbott & Costello Together: Third base! PAUSE Costello: Gotta a catcher? Abbott: Certainly. Costello: The catcher's name? Abbott: Today. Costello: Today, and tomorrow's pitching. Abbott: Now you've got it. Costello: All we got is a couple of days on the team. PAUSE Costello: You know I'm a catcher too. Abbott: So they tell me. Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw the guy out at first base. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who? Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right. Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about! PAUSE Abbott: That's all you have to do. Costello: Is to throw the ball to first base. Abbott: Yes! Costello: Now who's got it? Abbott: Naturally. PAUSE Costello: Look, if I throw the ball to first base, somebody's gotta get it. Now who has it? Abbott: Naturally. Costello: Who? Abbott: Naturally. Costello: Naturally? Abbott: Naturally. Costello: So I pick up the ball and I throw it to Naturally. Abbott: No you don't, you throw the ball to Who. Costello: Naturally. Abbott: That's different. Costello: That's what I said. Abbott: You're not saying it... Costello: I throw the ball to Naturally. Abbott: You throw it to Who. Costello: Naturally. Abbott: That's it. Costello: That's what I said! Abbott: You ask me. Costello: I throw the ball to who? Abbott: Naturally. Costello: Now you ask me. Abbott: You throw the ball to Who? Costello: Naturally. Abbott: That's it. Costello: Same as you! Same as YOU! I throw the ball to who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't give a darn! Abbott: What? Costello: I said I don't give a darn! Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop.
9. The fool hath said in his heart,there is no God.
10. It's called: 1. Taking things out of context 2. Ignoring the subject /and or the verb 3. Intentionally ignoring the true meaning 4. Not actually reading a text but skimming it to find discrepancies intentionally without first interpreting the text 5. Anger at God 6. Thinking that every word in the bible is a directive from God is not true. There is a great deal of at-the-time culture in the bible. 7. Not being led by the Holy Spirit who reveals things spiritually, not intellectually
11. why are people like you SO unhappy with Christians? Did you ever think of just shuting up long enough to listen for once? it doesn`t matter who answers all your questions because if they don`t have the opinion you want,you don`t want to hear it. so I`ll make a deal with you when your ready to shut up and listen I will answer all your questions.
12. con·text (kntkst) n. The part of a text or statement **that surrounds a particular passage** and determines its meaning. Your list was OUT of context. How can you criticize something when you haven't exhausted every opportunity to understand it? To criticize means to find fault with after analyzation and evaluation. For instance, if you're an atheist and you understand one idea that Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected...but don't believe it...feel free to criticize. But, unless you've read the Bible from cover to cover in an attempt to ANALYZE and EVALUATE, you really don't have the authority to criticize the ENTIRE Bible. In the interest of everyone else on Yahoo! Answers, I will not cut & paste the answers to each of your questions...as you cut & pasted your question. I will, however, post a link here that answers each of your contradictions. Whether or not you follow and read the entire link will show if you're truly wanting your contradictions debunked, or if you're trying to show off.
13. I've just had a quick scan through this page: http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm which explains where most, if not all, of your apparent contradictions have come from. The whole text is far too long to post here as each of your bullet points is examined in some depth.
14. That's a nice argument. But since you have nothing to lose in asking, why don't you ask God to show himself to you? Yes I know this isn't the answer you're looking for (my apologies) but just try asking God to make himself known to you? Be real with him, that's it. You'll have nothing to lose by asking... take care friend